Seguimento Europa 2010

[J.S.]

And we can thank the heatisle for that one. In both places btw. But in weatheramateurland records are the summum of the hobby, so records will be defended and doubts about them are fiercly put aside...Most of all if people consider it "our" record.

Funny is that one of the most sensible places to measure the temperature is called "moron"..:-)

 

[mesogeiakos]

And we can thank the heatisle for that one. In both places btw. But in weatheramateurland records are the summun of the hobby, so records will be defended and doubts about them are fiercly put aside...Most of all if people consider it "our" record.

Funny is that one of the most sensible places to measure the temperature is called "moron"..:-)

And that comes from someone who has failed systematically to proove academically how the alleged UHI of the stations in question is apparent.The best J.S has done was a collection of generic studies all over Athens while on the other hand two studies of 1985 and 2007 coming from NOA regarding the Observatory station itself discredit the notion of any UHI affecting the mean in Athens.

The main challenge J.S had to face was to proove to us how Megara is also affected by the alleged UHI of Athens stations 45km to the west seperated by sea and two mountain ranges.Instead we saw him using all kinds of excuses to try and grab onto something,anything that will help him surpass his shock of Attica's extreme summer dynamic

Funny how much awe and fear a peninsula by the sea has cause to heatlovers with its unique dynamic of systematically outperforming even areas in the Red Sea ,let alone any area in Europe....but that is the fun part of it:the extreme effort of heatlovers to discredit Athens,which goes to show how trullly remarkable Attica is!Let's see the levels Attica can reach the next few days?Shall we?We are writing history day by day in Attica and the above UK thread might as well remain a point of reference for years to come!

 

[J.S.]

And that comes from someone who has failed systematically to proove academically how the alleged UHI of the stations in question is apparent.The best J.S has done was a collection of generic studies all over Athens while on the other hand two studies of 1985 and 2007 coming from NOA regarding the Observatory station itself discredit the notion of any UHI affecting the mean in Athens.

The main challenge J.S had to face was to proove to us how Megara is also affected by the alleged UHI of Athens stations 45km to the west seperated by sea and two mountain ranges.Instead we saw him using all kinds of excuses to try and grab onto something,anything that will help him surpass his shock of Attica's extreme summer dynamic

Funny how much awe and fear a peninsula by the sea has cause to heatlovers with its unique dynamic of systematically outperforming even areas in the Red Sea ,let alone any area in Europe....but that is the fun part of it:the extreme effort of heatlovers to discredit Athens,which goes to show how trullly remarkable Attica is!Let's see the levels Attica can reach the next few days?Shall we?

Lets discuss this further on the "ilha do calor urbano" thread.

 

[mesogeiakos]

Ok here is how it stands 21 days in August so far...

Note that the past two days the Meltemi winds have caused 6-8C temperature drop in the whole of Greece!Forecasts says for two more days the winds across the Aegean will remain strong

However both Seville and Athens are still above their ALL TIME mean temp record

 

[mesogeiakos]

Days 22 in August so far....we need Athens to manage and stay above 31.2C for a little longer....just 8-9 days and Athens will have one more official warm WMO record in it's long collection of warm records

 

[mesogeiakos]

So it seems we have a little thriller going on here!

Basically it's all about Elefsina AP managing to beat the Thiseio all time record of 31.2C and thus being the third station in Attica to have broken the 2007 record.While Elefsina AP currently stands higher than it's own 2007 record of 30.8C it would be nice to see this station as well breaking the 2007 record (it seems that both Megara and Thiseio will do it despite the recent cooling in Greece)

However San Pablo AP is fighting a good fight here!Currently standing 0.1C higher of it's all time mean record that was registered last month and if the forecasts are correct it will do it second time on the row!This contest must be one of the most HISTORIC in terms of warm European climatology since we are watching the warmest month on average in European soil by the big players in Andalusia and Attica!!

Apart from the reproductions I do I am informed that currently the UK thread is being reproduced in Spain,Greece,Italy,France,Bulgaria,Sweden,Finland and even South Africa!Currently standing at 14k views from all over Europe and the world indeed...

Here is the current standing 23 days so far...

 

[J.S.]

What one should also consider is:

which shield are used by the various weatherservices. Currently I am construction some new radiationshield and I tend to experiment on my site with a heaviky ventilated pipe (campebll like one), a passiveone I already have and an inbetween version (gillplate with a part of a pipe in it and ventilated). This because there are differences between these shield, not to speak of stevensonscreens. The differences are that Stevensonscreen overheat in strong sunshine.

I noteded this while I was researching to pro's and cons of sensorscreens and aspirated screensin particular (one drawback I know of with a strong aspirated shield is that they also draw mist over the sensor which leads to cooling etcetc).

In England, the Stevenson is still the way they measure airtemperatures. In The Netherlands, we use KNMI models of the Vaisala screens (the ones I build personally aswell). Strange thing is that there is in fact no standard radiation screen, even though on days with high irradiation and low winds, stevensonscreen>> gillplated screens > aspirated pipes tend to overheat. Up to well over 2 or 3 C compared to the Gillplated screens.

So how do they measure temperatures in the various countries. In Portugal we see both screentypes on the same field, but the stevensontypes do not seem to be well maintained always. In The Netherlands it is KNMI Gillplate. How about Spain and Greece?

Despite my comments and critique it does not denythe fact that the heat in Greece, Spain and very likely Portugal is something special. Herdade dos Lameirões (Gill plate screen) was up to 37,5 C untill the 22nd and that is warmer than any station I came across until that day. Amareleja has been a bit warmer the last weeks, but the data (to me) seem not so reliable.

So it seems we have a little thriller going on here!

Basically it's all about Elefsina AP managing to beat the Thiseio all time record of 31.2C and thus being the third station in Attica to have broken the 2007 record.While Elefsina AP currently stands higher than it's own 2007 record of 30.8C it would be nice to see this station as well breaking the 2007 record (it seems that both Megara and Thiseio will do it despite the recent cooling in Greece)

However San Pablo AP is fighting a good fight here!Currently standing 0.1C higher of it's all time mean record that was registered last month and if the forecasts are correct it will do it second time on the row!This contest must be one of the most HISTORIC in terms of warm European climatology since we are watching the warmest month on average in European soil by the big players in Andalusia and Attica!!

Apart from the reproductions I do I am informed that currently the UK thread is being reproduced in Spain,Greece,Italy,France,Bulgaria,Sweden,Finland and even South Africa!Currently standing at 14k views from all over Europe and the world indeed...

Here is the current standing 23 days so far...

 

[mesogeiakos]

JS, HNMS which is a branch of the Hellenic army (Hellenic airforce) is notorious for not discussing tehncical aspects of their measurements procedures.Good thing is that I was one of the ''elite'' few Greek nationals who did their military service (yes, it's still obligatory in Greece thanks to Greco-Turkish relations) in the Hellenic airforce and I can only comment on the station of Parnitha mountain in Athens which is indeed stevensonscreen type however there is special alocated staff responsible for their daily maintanance which in all fairness seemed quite reasonable to me.However dont forget that we are talking about the army after all so in order to get your hands on those info apart from the fact it is illegal (ie publishing fotos of the stations etc) it can be some task!!

However given that by nature I do not like to leave things at chance I can only say that I am well aware that Elefsina station has a very well maintained net of stations(actually there are 4 class A meteorological stations all over the airport and the reason of this rich network is that some interesting research is taking place in Elefsina due to the extremes it often displays being just by the sea).

Mind you that Elefsina displays the same intensity of extremes in the winter as well currently standing 1.5C lower average than nearby coastal Hellenikon airport during the winter and having registered the absolute minimums in Attica's coasts during the winter!

Just to note that from reports we have is that the Hellenic Airforce started noticing Elefsina's extreme temperature dynamic closely from the mid 60's.Today the Elefsina airport has become a topic of heated political rivalry between Greece's main political parties on whether the airport should become a civil airport thus giving Athens it's second airport that will significantly help west Athens inhabitants...Mind you that the Airforce is doing anything on it's power not to ceede the stations and the Elefsina airport to civil administration quoting reasons of important meteorological research!!!

 

[duero]

So it seems we have a little thriller going on here!

Basically it's all about Elefsina AP managing to beat the Thiseio all time record of 31.2C and thus being the third station in Attica to have broken the 2007 record.While Elefsina AP currently stands higher than it's own 2007 record of 30.8C it would be nice to see this station as well breaking the 2007 record (it seems that both Megara and Thiseio will do it despite the recent cooling in Greece)

However San Pablo AP is fighting a good fight here!Currently standing 0.1C higher of it's all time mean record that was registered last month and if the forecasts are correct it will do it second time on the row!This contest must be one of the most HISTORIC in terms of warm European climatology since we are watching the warmest month on average in European soil by the big players in Andalusia and Attica!!

Apart from the reproductions I do I am informed that currently the UK thread is being reproduced in Spain,Greece,Italy,France,Bulgaria,Sweden,Finland and even South Africa!Currently standing at 14k views from all over Europe and the world indeed...

Here is the current standing 23 days so far...

WAIT 3 DAYS, NEW HOT WAVE IN SPAIN.

1.- Fenómeno meteorológico: Ola de calor

(HOT WAVE)

2.- Ámbito geográfico: Mitad sur peninsular, zona centro y valle medio del Ebro

3.- Comienzo de la situación: Desde el miércoles día 25, comenzando por el suroeste peninsular.

(WEDNESDAY 25)

4.- Duración: Al menos hasta el próximo lunes, día 30.

(MONDAY 30)

5.- Grado de probabilidad: Muy probable (70-90%).

6.- Descripción de la situación meteorológica: Una masa de aire muy cálido procedente del norte de África afectará a gran parte de la Península y dará lugar a un ascenso paulatino y generalizado de las temperaturas en el sur, interior y nordeste peninsular, comenzando mañana miércoles, día 25, y alcanzando sus máximos valores durante el fin de semana, especialmente en el cuadrante suroccidental.

Se prevé que se alcancen temperaturas máximas en torno a 40/42 ºC en áreas de Andalucía, Extremadura, Murcia y sur de Castilla-La Mancha, en torno a 36/38 ºC en la zona centro, valle medio del Ebro e interior del este peninsular, y en torno a 34/36 ºC en áreas de la meseta norte. Es probable que estos valores persistan durante varios días y que incluso se superen de forma puntual, aunque en el noreste peninsular tenderán a suavizarse a partir del lunes 30. Las temperaturas mínimas también alcanzarán valores significativamente altos por lo que la sensación de calor se mantendrá a lo largo del todo el día en muchas áreas del interior sur peninsular. Es probable que las mínimas no bajen de los 24 ºC en áreas de Andalucía pudiendo ser incluso puntualmente más altas.

MAXIMUN 40/42ºC

MINIMUN: MORE THAN 24ºC

http://www.aemet.es/es/info_destacada/cnp/avisos/AEspecial5

NEXT DAYS

SEVILLE

http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/prediccion/localidades/sevilla-41001

 

[J.S.]

JS, HNMS which is a branch of the Hellenic army (Hellenic airforce) is notorious for not discussing tehncical aspects of their measurements procedures.Good thing is that I was one of the ''elite'' few Greek nationals who did their military service (yes, it's still obligatory in Greece thanks to Greco-Turkish relations) in the Hellenic airforce and I can only comment on the station of Parnitha mountain in Athens which is indeed stevensonscreen type however there is special alocated staff responsible for their daily maintanance which in all fairness seemed quite reasonable to me.However dont forget that we are talking about the army after all so in order to get your hands on those info apart from the fact it is illegal (ie publishing fotos of the stations etc) it can be some task!!

However given that by nature I do not like to leave things at chance I can only say that I am well aware that Elefsina station has a very well maintained net of stations(actually there are 4 class A meteorological stations all over the airport and the reason of this rich network is that some interesting research is taking place in Elefsina due to the extremes it often displays being just by the sea).

Mind you that Elefsina displays the same intensity of extremes in the winter as well currently standing 1.5C lower average than nearby coastal Hellenikon airport during the winter and having registered the absolute minimums in Attica's coasts during the winter!

Just to note that from reports we have is that the Hellenic Airforce started noticing Elefsina's extreme temperature dynamic closely from the mid 60's.Today the Elefsina airport has become a topic of heated political rivalry between Greece's main political parties on whether the airport should become a civil airport thus giving Athens it's second airport that will significantly help west Athens inhabitants...Mind you that the Airforce is doing anything on it's power not to ceede the stations and the Elefsina airport to civil administration quoting reasons of important meteorological research!!!

Well, it reamins strange that an area that is cooler in summer because of coastal influences allover (Athinai Airport) is cooler in summer but also cooler than Elesina in winter at night (2002-2010 data it is 0,4 to 0,7 C cooler). How can that be? The more isolated sea near Elefsina cannot AND explain the wamr night but also warmer winternights, as the same small water should cool down faster also...
The difference with Athens in winter could, sorry to bring it up again, be explained well because heatisle effects at night are very noticable in winter.
A more suburban type of station looks more continental. Because windbreaks cause faster warming and cooling. Reason why Elefsina is also cooler at night??

Who knows. But using an Stevenson screen could explain a good deal of the heath in Elefsina also. And other Greek stations. These things tend to selfheat and selfheating is most easy on days with high irradiation and low winds.....

It is the reason why I am going to test this first on my site and after seeing the results, I will test some know warm KNMI stations (gillplates, but unventilated still overheat) next year. I already have some land near one station (a collegue of mine) where I can test...fun thing to do!


BTW: I have been looking at the uniqueness of Athinai. In what way is it more unique than Kalamata? That place sits in at least a similar position. The mountains are surrounding it and they are of comparable or somewhat lower and higher altitude, yet this station notes virtually identical temperatures to Athinai Airport...2002-2010 average 31.8 and 31.7 C in july and august. Minimumtemperatures are comparable to Athens airport in winter and lower in summer (20.0 C instead of 22).

 

[mesogeiakos]

Well, it reamins strange that an area that is cooler in summer because of coastal influences allover (Athinai Airport) is cooler in summer but also cooler than Elesina in winter at night (2002-2010 data it is 0,4 to 0,7 C cooler). How can that be? The more isolated sea near Elefsina cannot AND explain the wamr night but also warmer winternights, as the same small water should cool down faster also...
The difference with Athens in winter could, sorry to bring it up again, be explained well because heatisle effects at night are very noticable in winter.
A more suburban type of station looks more continental. Because windbreaks cause faster warming and cooling. Reason why Elefsina is also cooler at night??

Who knows. But using an Stevenson screen could explain a good deal of the heath in Elefsina also. And other Greek stations. These things tend to selfheat and selfheating is most easy on days with high irradiation and low winds.....

It is the reason why I am going to test this first on my site and after seeing the results, I will test some know warm KNMI stations (gillplates, but unventilated still overheat) next year. I already have some land near one station (a collegue of mine) where I can test...fun thing to do!


BTW: I have been looking at the uniqueness of Athinai. In what way is it more unique than Kalamata? That place sits in at least a similar position. The mountains are surrounding it and they are of comparable or somewhat lower and higher altitude, yet this station notes virtually identical temperatures to Athinai Airport...2002-2010 average 31.8 and 31.7 C in july and august. Minimumtemperatures are comparable to Athens airport in winter and lower in summer (20.0 C instead of 22).

Well you can look Spata airport all you want.As I said the Mesogheia plain has nothing to do with Athens basin and the Megaris plain climate .Can you explain to me why Megara exactly at the same distance from Athens is so much warmer to Spata airport?

You can bring up the UHI the Spata airport or whatever the truth be said is that Athens basin has one of the most extreme summer climates.Come on we managed 48.0C by the sea and at the rural station of Tatoi at an altitude double of the Observatory.In order to have a basic grasp of the Athens climate you will need a proper thesis and not tutiempo sites!

 

[mesogeiakos]

WAIT 3 DAYS, NEW HOT WAVE IN SPAIN.



http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/prediccion/localidades/sevilla-41001

Do you want to bet that even if Seville does 42C everyday until the 31st of August then Athens will still beat you?

 

[J.S.]

Do you want to bet that even if Seville does 42C everyday until the 31st of August then Athens will still beat you?

? May be it is perfectly normal for you speak in terms of winning and losing but what are you exactly doing to win. What is your effort? I still don't understand the competition.

I guess Spain-Portugal in the warmest places will be warmer at day than the Greek stations. The averages will be warmer in the places you cite in Greece and so do the minima.

Sparta: I have no values. The values I use are from wetteronline. And it is difficult to explain why Elefsina is warmer in summer AND winter than a more exposed (to the sea) side like Athens AP. BTW: Athens airport seems to be blocked for northern-westernwinds also..So it is not THAT different.

I am talking about Kalamata. So how is it so different? It is low lying, and the wind seems to be dominantly north. Looks like surrounded by mountains also etc. Megara is open to the NW by the way: just flat.

What I wanted to propose is you taking pictures of the screens used and to picture the screen from N-E-S-W to see if buildings are present or not. I suspect it to be pretty close to the runway.
How do you explain Elefsina to be much cooler at night than Megara? The sea near Elefsina is almost enclosed, not so at Megara. So my expectation is some local siting problems. Not uncommon, as you have seen how well Amareleja is measuring its temperatures. Just idiotic. This seems to be a worldwide thing: everywhere you find some/a lot stations that look awfull.

Given the fact that Stevenseonscreens, certainly unventilated ones are prone to warm up significantly (2-3 C) in just these summertime situations in the mediterranean, it is essential to know how each institute is measuring. Stationssiting is as equally important.

 

[mesogeiakos]

? May be it is perfectly normal for you speak in terms of winning and losing but what are you exactly doing to win. What is your effort? I still don't understand the competition.

I guess Spain-Portugal in the warmest places will be warmer at day than the Greek stations. The averages will be warmer in the places you cite in Greece and so do the minima.

Sparta: I have no values. The values I use are from wetteronline. And it is difficult to explain why Elefsina is warmer in summer AND winter than a more exposed (to the sea) side like Athens AP. BTW: Athens airport seems to be blocked for northern-westernwinds also..So it is not THAT different.

I am talking about Kalamata. So how is it so different? It is low lying, and the wind seems to be dominantly north. Looks like surrounded by mountains also etc. Megara is open to the NW by the way: just flat.

What I wanted to propose is you taking pictures of the screens used and to picture the screen from N-E-S-W to see if buildings are present or not. I suspect it to be pretty close to the runway.
How do you explain Elefsina to be much cooler at night than Megara? The sea near Elefsina is almost enclosed, not so at Megara. So my expectation is some local siting problems. Not uncommon, as you have seen how well Amareleja is measuring its temperatures. Just idiotic. This seems to be a worldwide thing: everywhere you find some/a lot stations that look awfull.

Given the fact that Stevenseonscreens, certainly unventilated ones are prone to warm up significantly (2-3 C) in just these summertime situations in the mediterranean, it is essential to know how each institute is measuring. Stationssiting is as equally important.

Come on Spata is totally left unprotected to the meltemi winds and the Aegean sea. Whereas the Athens basin TOTALLY different in that it is surrounded by unique geomorphologic features and mountains towards all directions,closed valleys and plains from all areas,phoen effect prone areas and off course towards the Argosaronic gulf and not the colder waters of the Aegean.

Again we do not really care what you think of the stations in Greece if you can not substansiate that the HNMS stations are faulty or stevensonscreen is used in all stations.I dont even know!I only know Parnitha Mn for sure.

It's like I am giving private tuition.Just read on Athens or come and visit and save us every theory and personal opinion that you have in your mind.

As I said I am simply deconstructing the misconception that Andalusia is the warmest area in Europe by showing how a peninsula by the sea can be the warmest on average in Europe consistently in the summer! If we can find a strong opposing force in Europe for the Athens basin then I would be suprised, I doubt it would be Europe anyway...maybe the likes of Africa or Red Sea can really give trouble to Athens in my opinion

And here is how it stands 24 days in August and after the recent cooling of Greece

Btw the credit for the fancy charts goes to Ian Williams from the UK forum

 

[Marzena R]

Sucesivo tormenta en Polonia - 23/08/2010 (Lodz):

http://www.tvn24.pl/28115,1670475,0,1,zerwane-dachy-w-lodzkiem,wiadomosc.html