Yellowstone Ibérico

  • Thread starter Thread starter belem
  • Data de início Data de início
Seattle92 disse:
Era uma boa maneira de alguns jovens portugueses passarem as suas férias. :thumbsup:
Clique para expandir...

En la región de CASTILLA Y LEÓN, existen actividades de voluntariado ambiental en PARQUES NATURALES a lo largo del año.

No conozco si hay límite de edad.

El plazo fica abierto, acho que puede ir cualquier persona de cualquier país de la UE.

http://www.patrimonionatural.org/articulos.php?fija_id=52

http://www.patrimonionatural.org/ver_noticia.php?id_not=276

http://www.patrimonionatural.org/ver_noticia.php?id_not=268
 
http://docentes.esa.ipcb.pt/bovinos....nes/mateus.pdf

Aqui é apresentada uma tese que defende a domesticação do auroque em Portugal ( com mais detalhes).

«Sugere-se a possibilidade de um centro de domesticação do Uro na serra do Alvão (região povoada por um povo ibérico, já sedentário,possuidora de uma escrita própria e de uma cultura evoluída e, consequentemente capaz depossuir a arte da domesticação) e o consequente ponto de partida para a formação e evolução da raça bovina Maronesa. A raça Maronesa seria assim a descendente directa do Bos primigenius que povoou a Península Ibérica quando do primeiro movimento dos bovinos em estado selvagem. A Mirandesa e por afinidade genética a Arouquesa, pertencem ao tronco étnico Castanho Côncavo, formado a partir do Bos brachycerus, desenvolvido na Europa central, de onde se expande para a Península Ibérica já como animal domesticado.»


http://api.ning.com/files/XVnmW2JQZ...YVciy2o0bgf6auE1UwyDbib3tzA21Md3/DSC_0909.JPG
 
duero disse:
Acho ainda mais, seguramente en periodos calidos desapareceran os abetos de Portugal, mais hoje fico seguro que o pinsapo podería ser especie a desarrollar en planes de reforestaçao, en areas como as Sierras do Algarve.
Clique para expandir...

100% honest Duero: I have pinsapo seeds and was thinking of simply doing it myself. PInsapo BTW grows well over here, but it can die back in severe winters. Does not seem to be hardy....This is also true for Picea sitchensis BTW, a tree from the NW pacific that in severe winters tends to die back (to my amazement). We are talking -25 C here so it is pretty rare....

Now Pinsapo being a Grazalema tree and reading many research about it in my view the Serra do Monchique is still too warm and dry. In my view, the best place (also with continuing warming) this means Serra da Estrela e melhor.

How do you btw combine this with your dislike of other introductions like Eucalyptus? D not underestimate it. I can tell you that Abies grandis right in the woods over here has extremely aboundant regeneration! I personally like it a lot and so do the deer and rabbits after a cold winter where there was nothing to eat because of snowcover/frost. But Abies grandis gets as dense as 20-40 seedlings per m2 in places. Fine with me, but what i Pinsapo would do the same in its new environment.

Finally we see Abies alba being hit in NW France (it is getting too warm there). Indeed Pinsapo could be introduced there aswell, although I would prefer Grandis.
 
duero disse:
E moito posivel pois a latitude do pinsapo en España e mesma que o Algarve.
Clique para expandir...

This has little to do with it. We see Pinsapo trees in Atlas mountains of Marroco and Algeria (two subspecies) that are clearly not of the same lattitude.

Why would it be okey to reintroduce as opposed to introduce? Scientifically there is no difference.
 
abiesalbaabiespinsapo.png



Serra de Monchique é um bom local para a reintrodução do Abies pinsapo.

Penso que estes mapas utilizam como bases poucas estações meteorológicas em Portugal.
Se houvessem mais estações nas nossas montanhas e nos nossos vales, os resultados ainda seriam melhores.
 
belem disse:
abiesalbaabiespinsapo.png



Serra de Monchique é um bom local para a reintrodução do Abies pinsapo.

Penso que estes mapas utilizam como bases poucas estações meteorológicas em Portugal.
Se houvessem mais estações nas nossas montanhas e nos nossos vales, os resultados ainda seriam melhores.
Clique para expandir...

The map is too small I understand that the red colours indicate optimum growth for each species. Where did you get the map. Note that Abies alba is native in the Pyrenees only. I don't think it was ever native in Portugal. As you know by now "nativity" to me as an emotional and not a scientific way of looking at things. It is meaningless, so I don't mind!

But can you give me a link of the map?
 
J.S. disse:
The map is too small I understand that the red colours indicate optimum growth for each species. Where did you get the map. Note that Abies alba is native in the Pyrenees only. I don't think it was ever native in Portugal. As you know by now "nativity" to me as an emotional and not a scientific way of looking at things. It is meaningless, so I don't mind!

But can you give me a link of the map?
Clique para expandir...

You can save the map on your computer and use the « zoom» tool.
I did got it from Duero, a forum member from here.

I´m sure that recently Abies alba was absent in Portugal, but during colder periods ( Pleistocene, for example), could well be present in the North.
 
J.S. disse:
100% honest Duero: I have pinsapo seeds and was thinking of simply doing it myself. PInsapo BTW grows well over here, but it can die back in severe winters. Does not seem to be hardy....This is also true for Picea sitchensis BTW, a tree from the NW pacific that in severe winters tends to die back (to my amazement). We are talking -25 C here so it is pretty rare....

Now Pinsapo being a Grazalema tree and reading many research about it in my view the Serra do Monchique is still too warm and dry. In my view, the best place (also with continuing warming) this means Serra da Estrela e melhor.

How do you btw combine this with your dislike of other introductions like Eucalyptus? D not underestimate it. I can tell you that Abies grandis right in the woods over here has extremely aboundant regeneration! I personally like it a lot and so do the deer and rabbits after a cold winter where there was nothing to eat because of snowcover/frost. But Abies grandis gets as dense as 20-40 seedlings per m2 in places. Fine with me, but what i Pinsapo would do the same in its new environment.

Finally we see Abies alba being hit in NW France (it is getting too warm there). Indeed Pinsapo could be introduced there aswell, although I would prefer Grandis.
Clique para expandir...

I dont think so. I have seen a lot of many pinsapos in the city of BURGOS, in north Spain, in urban parks, and they seem to look good.


BURGOS

En.......2'7.........46
Fb.......4'1.........42
Mr.......6'3.........31
Ab.......8'0.........65
My......11'4........69
Jn.......15'2........46
Jl........18'7........30
Ag......18'9........27
Sp......15'7........36
Oc......10'9........50
Nv.......6'2.........56
Dc.......3'8.........57

Año......10'1........555

MONASTERIO DE SAN PEDRO DE ARLANZA (BURGOS).

http://tierrasdeburgos.blogspot.com/2009/10/arboles-singulares-el-pinsapo-del.html

DICIEMBRE 2009

DÍA........Max.......Min.

23/12......7.3,,,,,,,1.1
22/12......7.0.......4.4
21/12......4.4.....-13.2
20/12.....-2.2.....-17.1
19/12......2.4.....-10.6
18/12.....-0.1.....-14.0
17/12.....-0.6......-2.0
16/12.......0.7..... -8.4
15/12.......0.2.....-2.7
14/12.......1.6..... -2.5
13/12.....10.5....... 0.0


SAN ILDEFONSO (SEGOVIA). 1191 metros de altitud.

SPANISH "VERSALLES".:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

MES..........T.med............T.max.........T.min...........Prec.

En...............1'1...............6'5.............-4'4.............77
Fb...............2'4...............7'9.............-3'1.............93
Mr...............4'4..............10'2............-1'3..............80
Ab...............6'8..............13'1.............0'4..............98
My..............11'0.............17'8.............4'2..............84
Jn...............14'8.............22'2.............7'3..............70
Jl................18'4.............26'7............10'0..............27
Ag...............18'4............26'9..............9'8..............18
Sp...............14'2............22'0..............6'3..............64
Oc...............8'8..............15'0.............2'6..............84
Nv...............3'9...............9'2..............-1'4............100
Dc...............1'4...............6'4..............-3'7.............90

Año..............8'8ºC...........15'3ºC.........2'2ºC...........885 mm


VERSALLES ESPAÑOL

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:La_Granja_Palacio.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palacio_La_Granja22-7-2003.JPG

http://noticias.terra.es/fotos/actu...jardines-del-palacio-real-de-la-granja-de-san

IN THIS PLACE YOU CAN SEE PINSAPOS WITH MORE THAN 30m. HEIGHT.
 
J.S. disse:
100% honest Duero: I have pinsapo seeds and was thinking of simply doing it myself. PInsapo BTW grows well over here, but it can die back in severe winters. Does not seem to be hardy....This is also true for Picea sitchensis BTW, a tree from the NW pacific that in severe winters tends to die back (to my amazement). We are talking -25 C here so it is pretty rare....

Now Pinsapo being a Grazalema tree and reading many research about it in my view the Serra do Monchique is still too warm and dry. In my view, the best place (also with continuing warming) this means Serra da Estrela e melhor.

How do you btw combine this with your dislike of other introductions like Eucalyptus? D not underestimate it. I can tell you that Abies grandis right in the woods over here has extremely aboundant regeneration! I personally like it a lot and so do the deer and rabbits after a cold winter where there was nothing to eat because of snowcover/frost. But Abies grandis gets as dense as 20-40 seedlings per m2 in places. Fine with me, but what i Pinsapo would do the same in its new environment.

Finally we see Abies alba being hit in NW France (it is getting too warm there). Indeed Pinsapo could be introduced there aswell, although I would prefer Grandis.
Clique para expandir...

How do you btw combine this with your dislike of other introductions like Eucalyptus?

Its different. Eucaliptus come from another continent, and never exist before in Portugal, however pinsapo i'm sure occuried in Portugal during the last glaciation. Its not a strange tree.

And the impact over the enviroment is less than eucaliptus.

Finally we see Abies alba being hit in NW France (it is getting too warm there). Indeed Pinsapo could be introduced there aswell, although I would prefer Grandis.

Abies alba in NW France were introduced to be used in boat and ship building.
 
J.S. disse:
The map is too small I understand that the red colours indicate optimum growth for each species. Where did you get the map. Note that Abies alba is native in the Pyrenees only. I don't think it was ever native in Portugal. As you know by now "nativity" to me as an emotional and not a scientific way of looking at things. It is meaningless, so I don't mind!

But can you give me a link of the map?
Clique para expandir...

LINK.

http://siguiendoelcambio.blogspot.com/2010/02/biogeografia-historica-de-abies-alba-y.html

I understand that the red colours indicate optimum growth for each species:thumbsup:


The colour scale is logarithmic, so in reality, only more intense red color indicates full appropriate habitat.

DEEP RED..........OPTIMUM HABITAT FOR THE SPECIES.
 
How Monchique can be too dry for A. pinsapo?
Because of it´s dry season ( 4 months in Caldas de Monchique, for example)?
Caldas de Monchique isn´t on the wettest and highest area of the mountain, but I remember to see some data giving it more than 1000 mm anually. I would like to see a confirmation of this, though.


In Monchique the temperature and humidity gradients, from the lowest valleys to the highest mountains, is surprising. Some IM data, already demonstrated this.
3 days ago, I did a car trip, from Silves to Aljezur and while I was trespassing some Monchique valleys I could feel the surprising nocturnal heat that was present in some places.
So even at lower altitudinal zones, there´s much room for big temperature differences.

At around 700 meters, is not unusual to see the summer mornings covered with clouds.

PS: Duero, could you give us a sample description about the native vegetation ( the essential climax forest) of Grazalema?
 
GRAZALEMA

http://imageshack.us/f/804/grazalema.jpg/


Jn...........21'8........46
Jl............26'4.........4
Ag..........26'2.........7
Sp..........21'7........52

Its not very important the total annual rainfall. The most importan its the summer rainfall.

In Spain there are places with 600 mm/year where you can found Fagus sylvatica, in places of Nort East of the province of BURGOS, on the shadow side of the mountain.

BURGOS

En.......2'7.........46
Fb.......4'1.........42
Mr.......6'3.........31
Ab.......8'0.........65
My......11'4........69
Jn.......15'2........46
Jl........18'7........30
Ag......18'9........27
Sp......15'7........36
Oc......10'9........50
Nv.......6'2.........56
Dc.......3'8.........57

Año......10'1........555

But its impossibel to found Fagus sylvatica in Grazalema where the annual rainfall is more than 2000 mm/year.


THE MOST IMPORTAN ITS THE SUMMER RAINFALL.

I THINK MONCHIQUE IS OPTIMUS PLACE FOR THE PINSAPO.

PINSAPO occur on the shadow side of the mountain. On the sunny side of the mountain occur QUERCUS FAGINEA AND SOMETIMES QUERCUS SUBER AT 1000 m aprox.
 
Você deve autenticar ou registar-se para responder.
Topo Bottom