Seguimento Europa 2010

[J.S.]

Locally big problems with the rain now in The Netherlands. SOme station in the middle f the country received 150 mm in one day. Current totals are 205 in my province or even on my peninsula to be exact and 236 mm as the maximum of the country. Other parts still have had 78 mm which is about normal.

And...sunday we expect another 20-40 mm in my part of the country, so we could get up to 250 mm. That is almost triple the normal amount for august. The deficit we had is gone. Nice!

And daytime temperatures today again were 15 C. Nice to. Does not feel cold, although it is a normal midwinter day in Lisbon or Porto....Funny.

Here a davis vatage pro2 on the rooftop of a 20m building in the city center. Temperature is not okay (warm nights in summer and winter), but precipitation is okay. Hmm..in fact iis too low, but not this month.

http://middelburg.zeelandweer.info/



223mm already. 500mm for the year is a below normal everstill. Cold and snowy winters are dry and the spring and summer were way too dry. The last ten years we should have about 800-900 mm at least.

Domburg 15 km to the west (coast): 207 mm and 580 mm. Normally it is drier out there.

http://www.hupe-holiday.com/weer/vandaag2.htm

Those French temperatures are impressive btw! And yesterday 42,1 in Sevilla was pretty warm again too.

 

[mesogeiakos]

44 in Murcia yesterday!...as I have said repeatdly the heat champion of Spain is Murcia!While Andalusia can do boring 40-41 more frequent,if Murcia has it say in a couple of days it can make the whole of Europe shake.Dont forget that Murcia holds the current national absolute maximum temperature record in Spain!

 

[Paulo H]

44 in Murcia yesterday!...as I have said repeatdly the heat champion of Spain is Murcia!While Andalusia can do boring 40-41 more frequent,if Murcia has it say in a couple of days it can make the whole of Europe shake.Dont forget that Murcia holds the current national absolute maximum temperature record in Spain!

Perhaps Murcia has the high record temperature registered in Spain, but it is on the basin of the guadalquivir river where spain has the highest maximum average temperatures in the last 30 years. Cities like sevilha, jaen, córdoba are usually the hottest places (called cities) all the year in the last 30years.

 

[J.S.]

44 in Murcia yesterday!...as I have said repeatdly the heat champion of Spain is Murcia!While Andalusia can do boring 40-41 more frequent,if Murcia has it say in a couple of days it can make the whole of Europe shake.Dont forget that Murcia holds the current national absolute maximum temperature record in Spain!

I am not sure which value that is. It is either 47,2 or 47,8.

So you are impressed by Murcia for its high maximum. But you are having this crucade for Attica to be the warmest and not Guadalquivir, based on the average. Your reply shows why it is and always will be the Guadalquivir: because people like you are looking at those constant high maxima and not at average.
You find the 40-41 average "boring". A 30 C 24h average for a whole month is more exciting you think? I goes by unnoticed.

Murcia hit what, 47,2 or 47,8 as a max (47,8 being questioned I believe). How is that so much warmer than the 47,4 in Amareleja or slightly lower values in Cordoba and Sevilla (47,2 or so?).
If 44 C excites you, mindyou that the average over a 17 day period was 43,0 C in Amareleja. That is 17 days in a row what Murcia achieves just occasionaly.

Because Murcia is cooler generally, the 43-44 C temperatures are less expected an therefor seem more special. If it happens in the Portuguese and Spanish valleys near Moura-Merida and Sevilla-Cordoba, no one thinks it is as special.

Europe seems to be impressed by Sevilla-Cordoba and no other place. In the NEtherlands, the Portuguese interior is in fact mentioned many times togeter with Andalucia during the meteotalk at the end of each newsitem when it comes to incredible summerheat. I have never seen any mention of Athens or Murcia or any other place discussedon this forum the last 3 years or so. 35 C is not impressive, 40 C seems to be...

 

[J.S.]

Hoppaaaa..................another 30-50 mm expected in The NEtherlands tomorrow. And we are locally at 220-250 mm already. If itfalls in the "right place" we will reach 300 mm. Not a record (hmm...well..??), but wet everstill.

And it causes a lot of troubles with houses being flooded, small rivers become large ones etc. But I live in a city with some altitude, so I never have these problems. Haha. Any other part in my province bar the dunes does...

 

[Dan]

44 in Murcia yesterday!...as I have said repeatdly the heat champion of Spain is Murcia!While Andalusia can do boring 40-41 more frequent,if Murcia has it say in a couple of days it can make the whole of Europe shake.Dont forget that Murcia holds the current national absolute maximum temperature record in Spain!

É muito arriscado tirar esse tipo de conclusões apenas por um episódio. Ontem as condições sinópticas favoreceram, em termos de calor, o leste / nordeste de Espanha e o sudoeste da França. No dia de hoje os valores máximos de temperatura já serão, muito provavelmente, registados na região da Andaluzia.

 

[belem]

I am not sure which value that is. It is either 47,2 or 47,8.

So you are impressed by Murcia for its high maximum. But you are having this crucade for Attica to be the warmest and not Guadalquivir, based on the average. Your reply shows why it is and always will be the Guadalquivir: because people like you are looking at those constant high maxima and not at average.
You find the 40-41 average "boring". A 30 C 24h average for a whole month is more exciting you think? I goes by unnoticed.

Murcia hit what, 47,2 or 47,8 as a max (47,8 being questioned I believe). How is that so much warmer than the 47,4 in Amareleja or slightly lower values in Cordoba and Sevilla (47,2 or so?).
If 44 C excites you, mindyou that the average over a 17 day period was 43,0 C in Amareleja. That is 17 days in a row what Murcia achieves just occasionaly.

Because Murcia is cooler generally, the 43-44 C temperatures are less expected an therefor seem more special. If it happens in the Portuguese and Spanish valleys near Moura-Merida and Sevilla-Cordoba, no one thinks it is as special.

Europe seems to be impressed by Sevilla-Cordoba and no other place. In the NEtherlands, the Portuguese interior is in fact mentioned many times togeter with Andalucia during the meteotalk at the end of each newsitem when it comes to incredible summerheat. I have never seen any mention of Athens or Murcia or any other place discussedon this forum the last 3 years or so. 35 C is not impressive, 40 C seems to be...

Na minha humilde opinião, sinceramente acho até as médias dos meses mais quentes algo parecidas demais ( entre os locais ditos mais quentes da P. Ibérica e Grécia) e tenho alguma relutância em achar que a Grécia é a mais quente ( até em média, porque das máximas não tenho qualquer dúvida que não é), só por causa de uma comparação entre alguns pontos, feita durante um certo período.
Afinal, a zona baixa de Alcoutim com 27,9ºc de média para o mês mais quente, durante um período superior de tempo ( ao que tem sido usado nestas comparações) e estando FORA da região considerada mais quente da Bacia do Guadiana ( mas certamente é uma região quente e não serão assim tantos os locais mais quentes, embora também possivelmente não serão demasiado raros...), assim como os valores elevados de Sevilha e Córdoba, que dentro da grande região andaluz, constituem apenas alguns pontos e não todo o potencial térmico da região ( embora certamente sejam dos mais quentes), parecem-me demasiado perto dos valores dos locais mais quentes da Grécia referidos pelo Mesogeiakos e tornam assim impossível alguma conclusão definitiva, relativamente às médias ( daí que tenha pedido ao Mesogeiakos por dados climatológicos dessas regiões andaluzas)... Para já, segundo as estações que têm sido usadas na comparação, é visível que Megara este ano, teve um Agosto bem quente e mais quente que Andujar, Córdoba e Sevilha. Eventualmente até tem uma média climatológica de verão superior, mas isto não deve ser encarado como uma prova de que é o local mais quente da Europa ( ainda não percebi muito bem o que é a Europa para alguns, se tem que ser apenas geográfica, política, continental ou insular... Ainda não percebi.
Como a Bacia do Guadiana e do Guadalquivir são regiões extensas e não zonas confinadas a uma área com apenas alguns kms, tornam esta tarefa de determinar qual o local com maior média, hercúlea e algo injusta. E apenas mencionei estas 2 grandes regiões, para não mencionar outras existentes na P. Ibérica ou noutro ponto da Europa do Sul.
A meu ver, isto não tem carácter prioritário, mas respeito as preferências dos outros.
Seria mais sensato, para quem esteja com esse objectivo, fazer uma resenha dos locais que acredita serem mais quentes e tentar localizar publicações científicas e sérias sobre o assunto ( ou mesmo alguns registos pontuais e investigar sobre o seu índice de veracidade) para conseguir tomar alguma conclusão, por muito remota que seja sobre este assunto.
Mas isto é para quem tenha a motivação e vontade suficientes, porque sem dúvida é uma árdua tarefa.
Sem dúvida que usar os dados de capitais distritais é aplicável e tem o seu interesse inerente ( e limitações também), embora normalmente quando se quer definir quais os locais mais quentes, a investigação possa precisar de ser mais aprofundada.
Fica aqui a minha reflexão sobre este assunto, que para já parece-me ter uma abordagem algo embrionária e inconclusiva, embora com alguns pontos interessantes.
Mais «ontopic», as cheias na Europa, deixaram-me algo supreendido, mas já tem sido «normal» a ocorrência destes eventos em Agosto...

 

[mesogeiakos]

So at days 28 we have a thriller between Elefsina AP and San Pablo AP...with the 40's of San Pablo and Elefsina's mere 35's-36's the past few days even though HNMS was predicting 40C for Athens we currently have a 0.15C between the two!!

It will be a close call!Note that Seville has just broken the 30.6C mean temp record of Murcia from 1999!

I am telling you there is much interest in this thread in the UK forum.It's almost 25.000 views from all over the world and I personally have stopped reproducing it to other forums!So people are indeed catcing up with this thriller contest

 

[J.S.]

So at days 28 we have a thriller between Elefsina AP and San Pablo AP...with the 40's of San Pablo and Elefsina's mere 35's-36's the past few days even though HNMS was predicting 40C for Athens we currently have a 0.15C between the two!!

It will be a close call!Note that Seville has just broken the 30.6C mean temp record of Murcia from 1999!

I am telling you there is much interest in this thread in the UK forum.It's almost 25.000 views from all over the world and I personally have stopped reproducing it to other forums!So people are indeed catcing up with this thriller contest

A number in itself says little about why they are looking at it or what they think of it. What we do know is that when people do respond, many of them get rather aggitated by you. May not because of what you say but it seems to be mostly your sensationalist style (these people are serious over here!) and sometimes displaying some sort of superiority/inferiority when you talk about some regions and occasionally, people. On the Italian forum people were not defending Italy so much, but they were mostly defending Sevilla. In the end, no one or just a few accepted your arguments.
Because this way of expressing yourself (like saying Sevilla and Cordoba are boring) in an unsympathetic way get you nowhere, nor does not addressing valid points about heatisles. It happened on three big fora already. And you start to act that way once you meet people that do not agree with you.

 

[mesogeiakos]

The thriller for the 3rd and 4th post continues...sadly if the forecasts are correct it seems that Elefsina will fall in 4th place for about 0.05C difference with San Pablo

Other than that Attica is once again the super power of the European continent as the warmest area officially according to official WMO stations!

Thiseio,Megara and San Pablo have crashed their all time records...In fact San Pablo is doing it for a second month on the row and still it will fail to be warmer than Attica over the duration of the whole summer

 

[mesogeiakos]

So the National Observatory of Athens has published the data for July 2010 for it's stations

So here we go for Thiseio

Mean Max 34.8C
Mean Min 24.9C

Mean 29.85C

Megara was not there so I will be emailing Dr Kotrotsis for its means for June and July.However we can do the first direct comparison for the whole summer so far between San Pablo which was Spain's warmest and Thiseio which was Greece's second warmest for July (after Megara probably)

San Pablo WMO id 08391

June 2010 Mean 24.86C
July 2010 Mean 30.25C
August 2010 Mean 30.70C (approximatelly since it will be confirmed tommorow)

Thiseio WMO id 16714

June 2010 Mean 26.20
July 2010 Mean 29.85
August 2010 Mean 31.30 (approximatelly and always awaiting the bulletin of NOA for confirmation)


APPROXIMATE MEANS FOR THE SUMMER OF 2010

1.Thiseio's mean temperature for the summer of 2010: 29.12C

2.San Pablo's mean temperature for the summer of 2010 : 28.60C

NOTE THAT SEVILLE HAS SEEN IT'S WARMEST SUMMER EVER ON AVERAGE AS FAR AS I CAN TELL FROM ALL THE AVAILABLE DATA



Now the astonishing thing is that Thiseio is closing the decade with a mean max of 35.1C and a mean min of 24.9C for the month of July and this gives it an amazing MEAN OF 30.0C EXACTLY for the period of 2001-2010!! You cant really do better than that anywhere in the continent I think!


This also goes to show the dramatic warming Greece and all of South of Europe has experienced during the last decade!The corresponding values for San Pablo should be around 28.9C for the last decade...well above long term averages for both cities!!

Another important element is that Thiseio is again Greece's warmest in terms of mean maximum temp for July 2010 (with a reservation regarding Megara). I doubt the HNMS bulletin will reveal a highest mean max,mean min or mean temp for Greece for July 2010

 

[mesogeiakos]

24 hours to go and Elefsina struggling to retain 3rd place!

However it is almost certain that after today's data and if the forecasts are correct for both cities San Pablo will take 3rd place just by a few decimals!!

A very intersting twist owing to the extreme and one after the other heatwaves of Iberia so sar in August!

 

[J.S.]

Herdade dos Lameirões last week.

29/08/2010/ /28,4/ /40,1/ /14,3
28/08/2010/ /27,7/ /38,9/ /15,0
27/08/2010/ /26,8/ /37,5/ /15,2
26/08/2010/ /30,1/ /40,9/ /17,7
25/08/2010/ /29,1/ /42,1/ /15,3
24/08/2010/ /25,7/ /35,8/ /17,1
23/08/2010/ /24,0/ /32,9/ /13,5

Tmax average this month 37.7 and min 17.0.
July had 37.8 versus 16.3.

Yesterday, Amareleja hit 41.5 or so and Herdade dos Lameirões is always measuring aout the same values.

29th: from 14.3 all the way up t0 40.1. That is a 26 degrees amplitude! In The Netherlands, we only have this in april (-5 at night and 20 at day) and only once in every ten years or so!

But nice: you can sleep at night after a hot day. Even that is also rare in The Netherlands. When we hit 30-35 C we are in for 20+ nights many times...And they are sticky.

 

[Dan]

Herdade dos Lameirões last week.

29/08/2010/ /28,4/ /40,1/ /14,3
28/08/2010/ /27,7/ /38,9/ /15,0
27/08/2010/ /26,8/ /37,5/ /15,2
26/08/2010/ /30,1/ /40,9/ /17,7
25/08/2010/ /29,1/ /42,1/ /15,3
24/08/2010/ /25,7/ /35,8/ /17,1
23/08/2010/ /24,0/ /32,9/ /13,5

Tmax average this month 37.7 and min 17.0.
July had 37.8 versus 16.3.

Yesterday, Amareleja hit 41.5 or so and Herdade dos Lameirões is always measuring aout the same values.

29th: from 14.3 all the way up t0 40.1. That is a 26 degrees amplitude! In The Netherlands, we only have this in april (-5 at night and 20 at day) and only once in every ten years or so!

But nice: you can sleep at night after a hot day. Even that is also rare in The Netherlands. When we hit 30-35 C we are in for 20+ nights many times...And they are sticky.

A diferença entre a média das mínimas (17,0ºC) e a média das máximas (37,7ºC) é também bastante significativa.

 

[belem]

Herdade dos Lameirões last week.

29/08/2010/ /28,4/ /40,1/ /14,3
28/08/2010/ /27,7/ /38,9/ /15,0
27/08/2010/ /26,8/ /37,5/ /15,2
26/08/2010/ /30,1/ /40,9/ /17,7
25/08/2010/ /29,1/ /42,1/ /15,3
24/08/2010/ /25,7/ /35,8/ /17,1
23/08/2010/ /24,0/ /32,9/ /13,5

Tmax average this month 37.7 and min 17.0.
July had 37.8 versus 16.3.

Yesterday, Amareleja hit 41.5 or so and Herdade dos Lameirões is always measuring aout the same values.

29th: from 14.3 all the way up t0 40.1. That is a 26 degrees amplitude! In The Netherlands, we only have this in april (-5 at night and 20 at day) and only once in every ten years or so!

But nice: you can sleep at night after a hot day. Even that is also rare in The Netherlands. When we hit 30-35 C we are in for 20+ nights many times...And they are sticky.

Se a Herdade dos Lameirões já consegue valores dessa ordem, imagino nas zonas mais quentes da Bacia e do Vale do Guadiana...
Muito interessantes esses dados.
Obrigado por nos dar a média.